Nine Miscellaneous Debate Comments

Here are some points I made (edited somewhat) in a debate over at the TitusOneNine blog.

1.  In a letter to the L.A. Times, the estimable Dr. Kendall Harmon claims that The Current Dispute in the church concerning homosexual activity “ is not a debate about inclusion but about holiness.”   

Kendall is half right: It is, as he says, a debate about holiness. But indeed it is also about inclusiveness.

Many modernists accept the premise that same-sex unions can in fact be holy, to some degree or another. They conclude that SSU should therefore be included — there’s that word — in the catalog of things eligible for the church’s blessing and support. Traditionalists deny the premise and therefore the conclusion – and are willing to sunder the church rather than be associated with those who think otherwise.

2.  An anonymous commenter opined that it’s not the traditionalists who are causing the split, but rather that “the provocative elevation of VGR [Bishop Gene Robinson] was the act which sundered the church.” 

Following that line of reasoning to its logical extreme, it was the “provocative” election of Abraham Lincoln – which likewise took place in accordance with an established, agreed, democratic process – that sundered the Union. I doubt many people, other than perhaps a few remaining “Fergit, hell!” folks, would see it that way.  (Another commenter took me to task for using this analogy, but it seems to me to be a useful one.)

We can also analogize to the events recounted in Acts 15.  Recall that
the early church had a debate, seemingly a fierce one, about
whether to allow uncircumcised Gentiles to share table fellowship with
the Jewish Christians.  James the brother of Jesus ruled that yes, uncircumcised Gentiles would indeed be admitted to fellowship, provided that they observed certain key elements of the Law.

From Galatians 2, we know that James’s decision was not greeted with
universal approved by all in the Jewish church.  Suppose the Judaizing party had refused to accept that decision,
and instead had refused to associate with anyone who shared the table with
uncircumcised Gentiles.   

That seems much like what many
traditionalists in ECUSA are doing today, when they call for schism in
response to the prayerful, democractically-made decisions of GC 2003.

3.  The same anonymous commenter also wrote:  “Recall that the
primates said the elevation of VGR would ‘tear the sacramental unity of
the church at a fundamental level. That was the sundering.

That’s only true if one defines “the church” as the broader Anglican
Communion. As has been noted many times before, many Episcopalians
don’t.

I think we can safely presume that the GC 2003 delegates
prayerfully took the views of “the primates” into consideration, and
decided that others factors carried more weight. That’s the nature of decisionmaking – somebody has to weigh the competing factors and make the tough decisions.  Not everyone will be happy with those
decisions; the question is, what do they do about it?

4.  Some traditionalists claim that it’s not them, but the modernists, who are choosing to walk apart from the Anglican Communion.  That’s a very easy argument to resolve.  All we have to do is look at who now refuses to take
Communion with whom, when they would have done so in the past.  (Hint: It
ain’t us modernists.)

5.  Traditionalists seem to demand that, always and everywhere, we must use Scripture as the ultimate, authoritative standard to define “normal.” Modernists, in contrast, are willing to look to Scripture for guidance,
but not as the ultimate authority.  By my definition, modernists face the
facts. When dealing with a set of all-too-human writings from 1,900+
years ago, modernists don’t cavalierly disregard obvious reliability
issues. Neither do they elevate the writings as a verbal golden calf to
which all spiritual and moral thinking must conform.   

That’s a fundamental difference in approaches to life.  I’m afraid I don’t see it ever getting worked out; as Thomas Kuhn (?) once said, old
theories never die until old theorists do.

6.  Of course we have tradition and reason as well as Scripture.  Where does "tradition" end?   With Nicaea? Chalcedon? Augustine? Aquinas? Newman? Harmon?
Zahl?  If Harmon and Zahl, why not Borg and Macquarrie?

7.  Modernists typically regard tradition as an evolving body of
knowledge, the sum total of humanity’s experience filtered and
understood by the community, sometimes with different streams that can
diverge from and even contradict one another. I tend to think of
tradition as akin to scientific knowledge – just as new theories often
have to fight for acceptance, so too do new accretions to tradition.

8.  The definition of ‘good’ seems to be at the heart of the
dispute. Probably we all agree that it is meet and right to look to
Scripture and tradition for guidance. 

But it seems to me that we need
to differentiate between (i) rules of behavior that prevent us from
doing harm to others or ourselves, versus (ii) rules that simply remind us of our
relationship with God. Two rules in the latter category come to mind from the Roman church:  Priestly celibacy, and abstaining from meat on Fridays, echoed in our
own tradition of fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Many
modernists regard a rule of celibacy outside of man-woman marriage to be mostly in the
latter category.  To be sure, it’s a good rule to follow, especially when you’re young (I certainly want my teen-agers to follow it).   Moreover, not following the rule can be risky if you’re not careful.  But it’s hard to say that failing to follow the rule is per se a bad thing.

Rules in the latter category are great as voluntary disciplines.  But I don’t see how we
can justify demanding adherence to such rules as a condition of being a
“good” or “faithful” Christian.

In particular, for the church to tell committed, consenting-adult homosexuals
that they cannot be “good” Episcopalians unless they remain celibate, seems very much arbitrary and capricious.

And then there’s the question of sheer efficacy.  If we want to set out disciplinary rules for people’s own good (as opposed to for the purpose of protecting others), I can think of better ones than telling homosexuals to stay celibate.   We’d likely have a far more beneficial impact on people’s lives if we proclaimed that you can’t be a good Episcopalian unless you quit smoking,
drink no more than one drink per day, exercise at least four times a
week, and go to church at least three Sundays a month. 

9.  A commenter asks, since I regard some portions of the Bible as unreliable, “[w]hy does this same objection not apply to everything in the Bible, no matter how consistently it is stated?

Here we see yet another example of traditionalist black-or-white
thinking. (Some educational psychologist really ought to do a study of
why this fallacy of the false dichotomy is so pandemic among traditionalists.)  You might as well ask me why I decline to throw the baby out with the bath water.

By analogy, we know that Galen’s ancient writings on anatomy are
flawed in many respects.  We also know that the laws of physics
expressed in Newton’s Principia break down when we consider relativistic or quantum phenomena.  I could go on and on with more examples, but there’s no need.

Do we reject and scorn the writings of Galen and Newton because we
now know them to be partly unreliable?  By no means!  Instead, we try
to build on their legacies, while acknowledging their limitations, and
while honoring their authors as being among the giants, on whose shoulders we
stand (as Newton put it) to see just a little farther than they did.   There’s no reason not to do likewise with the Bible.

Comments

6 responses to “Nine Miscellaneous Debate Comments”

  1. Kendall Harmon Avatar
    Kendall Harmon

    “In particular, for the church to tell committed, consenting-adult homosexuals that they cannot be “good” Episcopalians unless they remain celibate, seems very much arbitrary and capricious.”
    This is where the question lies, D.C., and in your own words. It is not about inclusion, it is about behavior.

  2. David Huff Avatar
    David Huff

    D.C. wrote, “Traditionalists deny the premise and therefore the conclusion – and are willing to sunder the church rather than be associated with those who think otherwise.”
    Which is certainly the impression I get from said “Traditionalists.” And since Canon Harmon appears to read this blog, I’d like to ask him directly: Is it true that traditionalists, of the AAC/NACDP sort, are willing to sunder the church vs. being associated with the rest of us ?
    BTW, no fair employing hand-waving about who’s sundering with whom (a favorite bit of sophistry from my AAC-associated Bishop is that, “We’re not leaving TEC, they’re leaving us.”). Just try and answer the question. If TEC keeps heading in the same, general direction, and I see no reason why it wouldn’t, are you folks going to wrench apart the church just so you don’t have to associate with the majority of us ?

  3. bls Avatar

    Here’s my proposal: pick, at random, perhaps 4% of heterosexual Episcopalians.
    Tell them that in order to create good role models for gay Christians, the Church needs them to remain celibate for life. If they’re already married, sorry: they’ll have to divorce.
    If they’re raising kids – tough! They’ll just have to give them back. Or something.
    Let’s see how well they can conform to this “behavior”! I mean, they seem to want others to conform; they should be willing to do so themselves, if it’s such a snap.

  4. bls Avatar

    Nice post, BTW, D.C. It’s not true, though, that Traditionalists take “Scripture as the ultimate, authoritative standard to define “normal.””
    They allow divorce – prettied up in the Catholic Church as “annulment.” Women can become priests and ministers, which clearly and absolutely violates several strictures in the New Testament. The charging of interest on loans is proscribed throughout the Bible – but nobody thinks twice about it today. And we won’t get into the lobster and pork aspect.
    It’s about sex and scapegoating – and about Communion with Rome, I betcha.

  5. joe from oc Avatar
    joe from oc

    I am always fascinated when revisionists become short-term traditionalists and start proof texting, and acting like biblical literalists. But at least you’re making some effort to understand Holy Scripture, so I suppose I should respect it. There are some serious flaws in your reasoning however:
    1) To apply Acts 15 to the current situation is to assume that their is actually functioning authority in ecusa that a) has the right to impose a compromise decision on the church, and that b) there is real commitment to theological truth on both sides, making a compromise workable. What are the lines of authority in ECUSA? If Frank Griswold goes to the Primates Meeting and says that he agrees that the VGR consecration should not go forward, and signs a document that says as much, has he not given some legitimacy to the authority of the Primates?
    The Jerusalem Council was made up of men who all accepted that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ, the only Son of God come in the flesh, the one Saviour of Israel and mankind. From recent remarks made by a number of leading revisionist bishops (including VGR), it is clear that the ecusa hierarchy allows great deviation from this Christian norm, and whether or not these men and women have the right to consecrate a non-celibate, divorced homosexual or not, their decisions are suspect, and resistance and an appeal to the universal Church is completely appropriate. The constitution of ecusa makes clear that we are Anglicans who accept the Faith as it was passed on to us, and that we are part of a larger Anglican family, loyal to Canterbury. Did not the ABC also consent to the comment will of the Primates?
    2) The decision of the Jerusalem Council did in fact work because the Gentile Christians were willing to accept certain restrictions on their behavior. In what way are the innovators in this situation actually respecting the tradition of the Church and willing to accept any restrictions on their behavior? In addition, the final decision in Acts 15 was based the belief that their was such a thing called a moral law that provides guidelines for right action.
    3) The official teaching of ecusa is still that someone in a sexual relationship outside of holy matrimony is unfit for leadership. If you believe that the church is moving into a new dispensation where sexual relationships outside of marriage are completely appropriate, and that this is equivalent to the transition from a Jewish church to a multicultural one, then, using Acts 15 as your model, you have several things to do before you make such a monumental change: 1) make that case from Scripture and church tradition that their are no norms regarding sexual behavior save a prohibition on promiscuity (I do often hear liberals and progressivists mention that promiscuity might be a problem), 2) explain why the mind of the Anglican Communion is irrelevant, and 3) change the official teaching of ecusa.

  6. The Anglican Scotist Avatar

    But Joe from OC, what Christian in his or her right mind would be a Biblical literalist? Don’t be silly! Anyhow, let’s see what you’ve got.
    You say “The Jerusalem Council was made up of men who all accepted that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ, the only Son of God come in the flesh, the one Saviour of Israel and mankind.” Do you mean “Son of God” in the sense of Chalcedon? Then go and prove from the Bible alone that anyone at the Council of Jerusalem thought that way–I bet you won’t be a “Biblical literalist” much longer. Why? In order to even state who the Chalcedonian Christ is, you will have to go outside the Bible (hint: “of one being with the Father”).Or maybe you meant it in a non-Chalcedonian, “revisionist” sense?
    You say “In what way are the innovators in this situation actually respecting the tradition of the Church and willing to accept any restrictions on their behavior?” Really? ECUSA is now unwilling to accept any–any–restrictions on behavior? How does that follow?
    You add:
    “Inaddition, the final decision in Acts 15 was based the belief that their was such a thing called a moral law that provides guidelines for right action.”
    You mean the moral law deriving from the will of God, namely the will of God that ECUSA follows when it proposes to sanctify gay unions.
    And then, you say:
    The official teaching of ecusa is still that someone in a sexual relationship outside of holy matrimony is unfit for leadership.
    The official teaching? Hmm–where’s that again? You mean what the moral teaching of ECUSA should be on homosexuality isn’t at issue here? ECUSA isn’t arguing that there are no norms governing sexual behavior.

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